A Pure Patriot Keeps His Promise

By Chet Flippo & Bill Flanagan, Musician November 1984, page 52
Photos by Paul Natkin,

A two part look at the season's hottest concert and recording attraction, a champion of new morals and skilled chronicler of American travails and triumphs. First Chet Flippo sits down for a rare chat with the elusive Bruce, plumbing the depths of his songs' varied characters and the steadfast structure of his basic beliefs. Then Bill Flanagan talks at length with the E Street Band, now tighter and more committed than ever. A high-octane twin-bill spectacular- required reading for Springsteen fanatics and rock'n'rollers of all persuasions. [Equipment List]

Bruce Springsteen: A Rock 'n' Roll Evangelist for Our Times Crusades for Patriotism and Puritanism of a Different Stripe

by Chet Flippo

In a year when both political parties are fighting to see which can most reclaim the American flag and its attendant values as its own, how odd to see a rock ‘n’ roller predate them. Bruce Springsteen, as evidenced by Born In The U.S.A.'s introspective, even homey slice-of-American-life sagas, has created a curious but very real rock audience that might unknowingly have more in common with Cotton Mather than with Judas Priest, with Woody Guthrie than with Prince. Springsteen’s shows, his music and his attitudes share with his audiences a sort of New Puritanism, a sense of a quasi-religious manifest destiny, and a fundamentalist acceptance of life and its troubles,along with the faith that true belief will bring a better way. When Springsteen ends his shows with a cry to "let freedom ring–that’s -what we’re here for, even if we have to fight for it every day" there are no scoffers in his rock ‘n’ roll flock, only true believers.

Springsteen has the power and the touch. In many ways, he resembles the television evangelists riding the crest of a rebirth of religious fervor in this country. Unlike Jerry Falwell, though, Springsteen’s message is that true salvation lies in a rock ‘n’ roll way of life. Articulating that way is not easy; it seems to be an intuitive way of knowledge. How unusual it is to hear 20,000 rock fans cheer a performer’s rap on why you should love your street and your hometown and your state and your country. Bruce talks more about family values than Reagan does. Yet none of this suggests jingoism so much as a pure yearning for a return to solid values. Of course any value is better than no value, as demagogues and hucksters have always known. Any shyster can flourish in a moral vacuum, and in the past rock ‘n’ roll has never gotten gold medals for presenting either wholesome role models or messages to young people. So what is this all about?

Part of Bruce Springsteen’s current level of success must be attributed to his talent as an entertainer, and the absence of any real hard-edged competition. Even so, the oft-hesitant New York Times has flatly proclaimed Springsteen the "best rock performer ever." And there is no denying the fanatical intensity he brings to a show, the evangelical zeal of the true believer. Springsteen is the hardest-working white man in show business. His appeal transcends traditional rock ‘n’ roll parameters, though. He’s selling something unique among rock superstars: a self-evident faith. And in performance, he manages to project a R&R greatest hits collage: a bit of Buddy Holly’s innocence, some of the dark sensuality of Elvis, a bit of Bob Seger’s blue collar integrity, and the exuberance and abandon of a Mitch Ryder.

That charisma is as strong offstage. I caught up with Springsteen at shows in Detroit and New Jersey and found the backstage atmosphere unusual for rock. No hysteria of any sort, no cocker-spaniel bed-wetting exuberance. The feeling was rather like being in a busy ant colony at work. (The parallel to the Crusades shall go unmentioned.) People around Bruce don’t want reflected glamour so much as approval. The Springsteen work ethic is clearly palpable. MTV may offer its viewers a lost weekend with Van Halen–for Bruce, it’s the chance to be a roadie.

Bruce does not behave like a star either. When he met me in his dressing room in Detroit. after a show, his manner was that of an accomplice, a confidant, a comrade. For someone who seldom grants interviews, he was forthright, to the point, and funny. When I told him that he finally had a big enough constituency to either run for the Senate or start his own church, he laughed it off: "Naw, Clarence is gonna do that." That breezy Jersey Shore camaraderie does not disguise a manner that is so simple and direct that it’s almost misleading. This is a man who clearly has thought out his position in the scheme of things and has some things to say about it.

MUSICIAN: Aren’t you offering uplifting rock ‘n’ roll? Isn’t there a moral lesson involved with all that you do?
SPRINGSTEEN: Yeah, I guess. The one thing that bothered me about the Born To Run record was that when it was initially criticized people thought it was a record about escape. To me, there was an aspect of that, but I always felt it was more about searching. After that, that’s what I tried with Darkness On The Edge Of Town and The River and Nebraska. It was like: How real are these things in people’s everyday lives?

How important are they? I don’t know exactly what I'd call it but I know that most of my records after the Born To Run were somehow a reaction to the Born To Run album. To my own experience of it, which was really wild, if was really a big moment in my life. Now, "Born To Run," the song means a lot more to me than it did then. I can sing it tonight and feel like it breathes in all those extra years. It’s been, like–I wrote it ten years ago now. But it still feels really real. Very real, for me. It’s one of the most emotional moments of the night. I can see all of those people and that song to them is like–that’s their song, man. It’s almost as much the audience’s as it is mine. I like it when the lights are up because you can see so much from people’s faces. That’s what it’s about. But I like doing the old songs now, because I really feel they let the years in, they don’t feel limiting. Like, I hear part of Nebraska in Born To Run now.

MUSICIAN: Is Born In The U.S.A. primarily about, as it suggests, blue-collar pat riot/c values and rock ‘n’ roil realism?
SPRINGSTEEN: That was the direction I was going in. It was kind of hard to get there because I was just learning the importance of certain types of detail, which I began to get a handle on, I think, in "Darkness On The Edge Of Town." And "Stolen Car" and "Wreck On The Highway, which was kind of country-music-influenced stuff. I wanted the record to feel like what life felt like. You know, not romantic and not some sort of big heroic thing. I just wanted it to feel like an everyday, Darlington County kind of Thing. Like in ‘Glory Days," it sounds like you’re just talking to somebody; that’s what I wanted to do. Wanted to make it feel like you meet somebody. The Nebraska stuff was like that: you meet somebody and you walk a little while in their shoes and see what their life is like. And then what does that mean to you? That’s kind of the direction my writing’s going in and in general it’s just the thing I end up finding most satisfying. Just saying what somebody had to say and not making too big a deal out of it.

MUSICIAN: Do you feel that you have real, believable characters now that people your songs?
SPRINGSTEEN: That’s the hardest thing to do, the very hardest. When I wrote the Nebraska stuff, there were songs that I really didn’t get, because I didn’t get the people. I had all the detail, but if you don’t have that underlying emotional connection that connects the details together, then you don’t have anything. There were songs that didn’t get onto Nebraska because they didn’t say anything in the end. They had no meaning. That’s the trickiest thing to do and that was my only test of songs: is this believable? Is this real? Do I know this person? I was real lucky because I wrote almost all the Nebraska songs in about two months. Which is really fast for me. I just locked in and it was really different for me. I stayed in my house. I just worked all the time. Sat at a table or with the guitar. It was exciting because I realized that this was different from stuff I’d done before and I didn’t know what it was. But with songs like "Highway Patrolman" and the "Nebraska" song itself, writing like that, I was real happy with it. It just felt real. I didn’t know I was gonna do that, but I knew I was going somewhere in that direction.

MUSICIAN: Are those songs a reaction to what is happening in America? To American values?
SPRINGSTEEN: I don’t know. I think that what happened during the Seventies was that, first of all, the hustle became legitimized. First through Watergate. That was a real hurting thing, in that the cheater, the hustler, the dope pusher on the street–that was legitimization for him. It was: you can do it, just don’t get caught. Someone will ask, what did you do wrong? And you’ll say, I got caught. In a funny kind of way, Born To Run was a spiritual record in dealing with values. And then Nebraska was about the breakdown of all those values, of all those things. It was kind of about a spiritual crisis, in which man is left lost. It’s like he has nothing left to tie him into society anymore. He’s isolated from the government. Isolated from his job. Isolated from his family. And, in something like

‘Highway Patrolman," isolated from his friends. That’s what the record is all about. That happens in this country, don’t you see, all the time. You see it on the news. And it seems to be a part of modern society. I don’t know what anybody can do about it. There is a lot of that happening.. When you get to the point where nothing makes sense. Where you don’t feel connected to your family, where you don’t feel any real connection to your friends. You just feel that alone thing, that oneness. That’s the beginning of the end. It’s like you start existing outside of all those things. So Born To Run and Nebraska were kind of at opposite poles. I think Born In The U.S.A. kind of casts a suspicious eye on a lot of things. That’s the idea. These are not the same people anymore and it’s not the same situation. These are survivors and I guess that’s the bottom line. That’s what a lot of those characters are saying in "Glory Days" or "Darlington County" or "Working On The Highway." It certainly is not as innocent anymore. But, like I said, it’s ten years down the line now.

MUSICIAN: So you and your characters are facing adulthood?
SPRINGSTEEN: That’s kind of where I’m at right now. I wanted to make the characters grow up. You got to. Everybody has to. It was something I wanted to do right after Born To Run. I was thinking about it then. I said, Well, how old am I? I’m this old, so I wanna address that in some fashion. Address it as it is and I didn’t see that that was done a whole lot [in rock lyrics]. To me it seemed like, hey, it’s just life, you know. It’s nothin’ but life. Let’s get it in there. I wrote "Racing In The Street" kind of about that. See I love all those Beach Boys songs. I love "Don’t Worry, Baby." If I hear that thing in the right mood, forget it. I go over the edge, you know? But I said: How does it feel for you right now? So I wrote "Racing in The Street" and that felt good. As I get older I write about me, I guess, and what I see happening around me and my family. So that’s Born In The U.S.A. Born To Run was the beginning of that and it’s funny because I always felt that was my birthday album. All of a sudden, bang! Something happened, something crystallized and you don’t even know what. And now what are you gonna do? That’s the big question. You have an audience; you have a relationship with that audience; it’s just as real as any relationship you have with your friends. It’s funny. I wrote "Born To Run" in 1974 and now it’s 1984 and you can kind of see that something happened along the way. That’s a good feeling.

MUSICIAN: How do your rock values apply to your audience? What can you tell them of what you’ve learned?
SPRINGSTEEN: I think it’s different for every performer. I don’t think it’s any one thing anymore. You really can’t tell people what to hold onto–you can only tell your story. Whether it’s to tell it to just one person or to a bunch of people. There’s nothing more satisfying to me than coming in and playing really hard... and watching people–watching their faces. And then going home and feeling real tired at the end of the day .but knowing that something happened. So, I don’t know about the question of what rock ‘n’ roll means to anyone. I think every individual has got to answer that question for themselves at this point. I don’t think there ever was anyone with an answer. It’s like the difference between Jerry Lee and Elvis. At the time, they were both great. It’s just that you’ve got to take it for what it is and see if you can make something out of it. Some people, they don’t even hear it. It just goes over their heads or something. So I don’t think you can really generalize.

MUSICIAN: So, is your music just about girls and cars?
SPRINGSTEEN: That’s what everybody is saying. I always like those reviews. It’s funny, because I remember that when I was about twenty-four and I said, "I don’t want to write about girls and cars anymore." Then I realized, "Hey! That’s what Chuck Berry wrote about!" So, it wasn’t my idea. It was a genre thing. Like detective movies. I used to compare it to spaghetti westerns.

MUSICIAN: Or morality plays, maybe?
SPRINGSTEEN: Yeah. It’s probably less like that now than it was at onetime. But I was always very interested in keeping a continuity in the whole thing. Part of it for me was the John Ford westerns, where I studied how he did it, how he carried it off. And then I got into this writer, William Price Fox, who wrote Dixiana Moon and a lot of short stories. He’s just great with detail, In "Open All Night" I remember he had some story that inspired me, I forget what it was. But I was just interested in maintaining a real line through the thing. If you look just beneath the immediate surface, it’s usually right there. So I like the girls and cars idea.

MUSICIAN: But you consciously write images.
SPRINGSTEEN: Oh yeah, I always loved the movies. And, after all, music is evocative. That’s the beauty of it. Which is also the danger of video. The tools can be great there and obviously it can be used real well. But it can also be used badly because it’s an inanimate thing in and of itself. The thing about a good song is its evocative power. What does it evoke in the listener?

A song like "Mansion On The Hill–it’s different to everybody. It’s in people’s lives, in that sense. That’s what I always want my songs to do: to kind of just pan out and be very cinematic. The Nebraska record had that cinematic quality, where you get in there and you get the feel of life. Just some of the grit and some of the beauty. I was thinking in a way of To Kill a Mockingbird, because in that movie there was a child’s eye view. An~ Night Of The Hunter also had that–I’m not sure if surrealistic is the right word. But that was poetic when the little girl was running through the woods. I was thinking of scenes like that.

MUSICIAN: What about your relationship with video, from "Atlantic City" filmed without you in it to "Dancing In The Dark?"
SPRINGSTEEN: Well, when I did the Nebraska record they didn’t want it. I really didn’t have anything to do with the Atlantic City video. The only direction I gave was to say that it should be kind of gritty-looking and it should have no images that matched up to images in the songs. I was really happy with it. I liked the way it came out. "Dancing In The Dark" was Brian DePalma. That was interesting, working with him. I really haven’t gotten into video as of yet. We did that one around the time we were starting the tour and putting together the show. And that is the center of what we do. That has to be right. I look forward to getting into video, to see what can be done with it.

MUSICIAN: What about reactions to the blaster mix of "Dancin’ In The Dark?"
SPRINGSTEEN: People kind of get a rigid view of certain things. That mix was an experimental thing initially. I heard one on the radio and I said, "Man, that sounds like fun! Let’s do one of those." And so we got it to (producer) Arthur Baker and he was great, he was tremendous. I had a good time with it. He did the whole thing. His overdubs were kind of connected to my songs. He would put in something that sounded like a glock (glockenspiel) or a twangy guitar. When I heard it I just thought it was fun. This was kind of wild, man, this guy, he’s got an unchained imagination. I thought it was real creative. You’ve gotta do different things and try stuff. I figured that a lot of people would like it and that the people that didn’t like it would get over it. My audience is not that fragile, you know. They can take it. I’m just into seeing some different things. I could easily go out and do just what I did before. But now we’re playing outdoors on this tour, which I hadn’t done before. And we did the blaster thing and the video thing. I want to learn it myself. I want to just step out and see what works. If something doesn’t work, that’s okay and if something does, great. In ten years I’ve built up a relationship with my audience.

MUSICIAN: To the point where they would support a quasi-commercial risk such as Nebraska?
SPRINGSTEEN: Yeah! It was really well-supported by my audience, which was real satisfying and in tune. So, I say, hey, let’s do some things, get in there. I can’t stand in one place. You’ve got to take some chances.

MUSICIAN: What about fans’ expectations? Especially the assumption that you’ve inherited the rock ‘n’ roll crown.
SPRINGSTEEN: I don’t think you can ever think about that. I certainly would never think that. All those people were my heroes at one point or another. I still love Dylan, love the Stones. I kind of look at what I do in a couple of different ways. One is that it’s my job and it’s something I like doing and I do it the best that I can. Obviously I’m aware of people’s expectations and you gotta wrestle with that. But at the same time you gotta say, I write songs and we got a band, and that’s who you are, you know? I don’t think you can carry that kind of thing around with you. I just want to do what I can do. At different times I allowed myself to live under those types of pressures, of expectations.

I think that the audience and the performer must allow each other room to be human and to make mistakes. If not, then they don’t deserve each other. That’s what I wanted our band to be like. When I’m onstage I always feel, "What would I want to see if I was the guy in the fifth row?" I’m watching it and being up there and doing it at the same time. I still feel like such a big fan myself of all music.

MUSICIAN: What happened with Steve van Zandt?
SPRINGSTEEN: It was real emotional, him going, and I’ll certainly miss him. But he had to. He had written a lot of real good songs; he had something to say and he has for quite a while. And it was time that he stepped out and did what he had to do. But I talk to him all the time. Nils (Lofgren) I’d known on and off. Me and Nils auditioned the same night at the Fillmore West in 1969. When the situation came up, I had spent some time with him and I knew that he thought and felt about music and rock ‘n’ roll the way that I did. So that was kind of it. We never auditioned anybody or anything. He really brought an emotional thing to the band. At this point I think that the band is the only thing That counts. It’s the emotional commitment you gotta have to get on that stage.

MUSICIAN: Are you going to vote this year?
SPRINGSTEEN: I’m not registered yet. I think I am gonna register and vote my conscience. I don’t know that much about politics. I guess my politics are in my songs, whatever they may be. My basic attitude is people-oriented, you know. Kind of like human politics. I feel that I can do my best by making songs. Make some difference that way.

MUSICIAN: You have no perfume or beer companies or anybody sponsoring your tour. Would you ever?
SPRINGSTEEN: We get approached by corporations. It’s just not something that struck me as the thing that I wanted to do. Independence is nice. That’s why I started this. For the independence. I’m telling my story out there. I’m not telling somebody else’s. I’m saying what I want to say. That’s the only thing I’m selling. I had a few small jobs before I started playing but when I picked up that guitar, that was when I could walk down my own path. That’s just the way I like it. It’s a lucky feeling, you know, because how many people get to set their own standards and kind of run their own circus?

Photo by David Gahr

MUSICIAN: You’re doing the Rolling Stones’ "Street Fighting Man" as an encore. Is that a political statement?
SPRINGSTEEN: I don’t know. I like that one line in the song, "What can a poor boy do but play for a rock ‘n’ roll band?" It’s one of the greatest rock ‘n’ roll lines of all time. It just seemed right for me to do it. It’s just fun. In that spot of the night it just fits in there. It’s just so driving, man. After "Born To Run," we got to go up. That’s the trick. ‘Cause it’s hard to find songs for our encore. You gotta go up and then you gotta go up again. It has tremendous chord changes, that song.

MUSICIAN: Is this another tour that lasts forever?
SPRINGSTEEN: Well, it’s just the way we’ve always done it. It’s partly because the records take a while and by the time we get out, you want to go every place. But that was the original idea: this is a traveling band. You gotta bring it to people. Up real close, as close as you can get. That’s what I like to do. ‘Cause if you want it for yourself, you gotta want it for everybody, ‘cause it’s all connected. In the end it’s all part of the same thing: Which is why Elvis’ message was so profound. It reaches everybody, everywhere. Doesn’t matter where or what the problems are or what the government is like. It bypasses those things. It’s a heart to heart. It’s a human thing. That’s why it should go out. Somebody comes out, they shout and yell, they have a great night, it’s a rock ‘n’ roll show. It makes a difference, makes them think about something different. If I walk out on that stage and I feel it, there’s a moment here that can’t be recaptured. This is the night that they meet you and you meet them, head on. That chance only comes once. One time. And you gotta take advantage of it. Some nights, like tonight in that Detroit medley, you can hear the scream and that captures the entire night. That’s what I came to do. That’s all I wanted to say.

Playing In The Band: Getting the E Street Shuffle Down Tight

By Bill Flanagan, Musician November 1984 (part II), page 60

Recording Born In The U.S.A. really depended on the band playing at its full potential all the time," says Max Weinberg. Because there was very little rehearsal. We just went in without ever really running the songs down and recorded everything live. We cut seventy or seventy-five songs. Sometimes the band didn~t even know the chords. They’d be looking at Bruce’s hands. Bruce always sings live. We really depended on linking up.

"It was funny about this record," the drummer went on. "Most of it was recorded before MTV, before the Police got really big. ‘Born In The U.S.A.,’ ‘Darlington County,’ ‘Glory Days,’ ‘I’m On Fire–all those songs were recorded in the original sessions. This is more of a true American rock ‘n’ roll band sound. It’s the way we always sounded in rehearsal.

"We hadn’t played in six months and suddenly we came together and played. So it was very loose, very relaxed. We didn’t even work it out. That makes more sense for a band like us, trying to capture the heat of the moment. It took us ten years to get to the point where we could really do that. We’ve always tried, but it didn’t come off. That’s one of the reasons I think my drumming on Darkness At The Edge Of Town leaves a bit to be desired. You’ve got to make it as immediate as possible. As Bruce says, ‘We don’t make records, we make music."’

It’s July. Max Weinberg and the rest of the E Street Band are in Canada to play three nights in the Toronto Blue Jays’ baseball stadium. "Dancing In The Dark" has been all over the radio since early May. Born In The U.S.A.~the new album, has been in the stores for a couple of weeks. The Bruce Springsteen tour, which will last more than a year, is just getting underway.

Like this tour, the E Street Band has been over a decade in the making. Organist Danny Federici has been playing with Bruce for fifteen years. Garry Tallent (bass) and Clarence Clemons (sax) came aboard before Springsteen’s first album was recorded in 1973. Weinberg and pianist Roy Bittan started in late ‘74, in time to play on all of Born To Run except the title track. The band has two new members tonight. Nils Lofgren is a star in his own right, almost as well known for his work with Neil Young as for his own albums. Also new is background vocalist Patti Scialfa, a striking young woman with a powerful voice and southern New Jersey origin. By the end of three and a half hour concert, it’s obvious that one of rock’s best bands has gotten better. At a point when any ambitious musician would be content to maintain his level, Springsteen’s group has made a leap forward.

"I’ve seen Bruce’s show a lot over the last ten years," Nils Lofgren comments. "As good as the band has always been, they’re certainly better now. They’ve really matured. The first time Bruce played the new album for me, I especially noticed how good the band had gotten. They needed all that time, ten or fifteen years, to all progress to that stage. There’s no short cuts to where they are. To walk into the band at this moment is just fantastic."

There’s a wonderful moment toward the end of "Born In The U.S.A." when the whole band sounds as if they’re teetering, about to lose it, then pull back together with the exhilaration of an airplane pulling out of a nose dive. Compliment Springsteen on that track and he says, "That’s Max. Max was the best thing on that song. That was only the second take, and it’s Max’s best ever."

Weinberg recalls the moment: "We all thought the song was over. I was just about to stop playing. Then we went on for another eight minutes. There’s a long jam that’s not on the record. It was very exciting. At the point when we started recording Born in The U.S.A., my style was very stripped down. I made a conscious effort not to do as many fills. That particular song was a real fluke because I wasn’t into playing that way. It was real late at night, the session was over, and Bruce just started playing this guitar rhythm. That day on the way to New York I’d been listening to a Stones tape. I had the ‘Street Fighting Man’ groove in my mind. Roy came up with the line that he plays and it just fell into place. It was the simplest, quickest thing that I’ve ever had happen to me in the studio."

Weinberg’s sparser approach was influenced by his research for The Big Beat, his book of interviews with the greatest rock drummers. Talking to his heroes and studying their work gave Weinberg new insights. Max spent a day with Ringo, came back to the States, and played like Ringo on the next song the band cut, "Bobby Jean." Listening to Who’s Next led to approximating Keith Moon on the end of "No Surrender." "I used to overplay terribly," Weinberg volunteers. It’s a surprising admission from one of the most imitated–and sought after–rock drummers of the last ten years. Wasn’t that big drum presence part of the Springsteen sound?

"I was never comfortable with that," Max declares. "There’s certain tracks I listen to I know I could have done better on. I played badly on ‘Prove It All Night.’ I just wasn’t hitting the mark that day."

Clarence Clemons doesn’t disagree. "Like Max says," the sax player shrugs. "He was over-playing. He was over-anxious to do everything just right instead of relaxing and letting it happen. In the three years we were off the road everybody grew so much, musically and emotionally. And it shows. Now everybody’s sure of themselves, of their abilities. You just play. It’s a lot easier now."

Bruce Springsteen has grown. And not just as an artist, as an influence, and as a commercial force. Springsteen has GROWN. He’s taller. After the first of the Toronto concerts, my buddies and I were at the hotel pool when the Boss came out to join us for a swim. Heavy exercise and proper diet has transformed a once Jaggeresque physique into He-man proportions. The word around the dressing room is that with his new muscles, Bruce’s once horrible posture got unbent, and new inches were unfurled. The morning after one of his marathon shows leaves him exhausted, Springsteen drags himself out of bed and heads for the gym.

All of which brings us to the E Street Band’s role as New Prototype for rock ‘n’ roll habits. People magazine compared the clean-living band to the Hardy Boys. Intoxicants stronger than beer can’t be found backstage, and workouts are the hot pursuit. Moms and dads who fell in love to the music and image of the Rolling Stones must wonder what to make of kids who celebrate being "Born In The U.S.A.," bring American flags to rock concerts, and make a drugless guy like Springsteen the country’s top rocker. Whatever happened to decadence? [You wanna take that one, David Lee? –Ed.]

During intermission at one of the four-hour concerts Clarence Clemons stretches out on a rub-down table and says, "This tour, everybody’s physically fit. Everybody’s into being in shape, being aware of what you’re putting in your body." To the suggestion that, in a high-glamour era, the E Streeters project a regular guy image, Clarence says, "That’s the fun of it. To be a regular guy and to generate such enthusiasm. And not lose touch with your reality. We’ve all been around. We’ve seen it. And it’s no big deal. I hate that decadence. Some bands go out and play forty-five minutes. They’ve got limousines and caviar and champagne. Clemons makes each luxury sound like a communicable social disease. ‘Forget that. I just want to do my job and make people happy."

Confronted with accusations of temperance, bassist Garry Tallent flops back in his chair feigning drunken incoherence. "No," he smiles as he straightens up. "It’s true but, especially since People magazine, it’s become a thing. There’s a lot of bands out there who aren’t zonked every night. We’re not the only ones. I just don’t want it to become a big thing: ‘Oh. These guys are straight.’ That’s silly. Then it becomes something that it’s not intended to be. To my way of lookin’, it sort of fits. All of a sudden people are taking care of themselves, running, working out. If anything," Tallent smiles, "I think the times have caught up with us. We’re the band of the 80s."

Garry Tallent joined the band in January of 1971. ‘Bruce always did originals," Tallent says. "As long as I’ve known him. When I started playing with him the idea was, ‘Strictly originals.’ And we didn’t work. I think we were together nine months, rehearsing in the garage, working just once in a while. Then we decided to play some clubs. So we learned some Rolling Stones songs and some Chuck Berry songs," Tallent laughs, "which were basically the same–so we could fill out five sets."

What’s most different now?

"Being accepted," Tallent smiles. "Even in the little clubs, the acceptance has been there quite a while. This scale, worldwide, is great. But I can’t remember too many times it was really a bummer ‘cause people didn’t accept us. I remember a couple of occasions early on when people wanted to hear Steel Mill (Bruce’s hard rock band) and we weren’t giving them that kind of stuff any more. We had trouble playing in places where he was once very popular. But that was a long time ago. What’s the same is feeling that what you’re doing is great. I’ve always loved Bruce’s writing and I’ve always loved playing in a band with him. That has always been."

lt’s twenty-five minutes before show time the next evening. Springsteen wanders out of the dining room backstage, and toward his dressing room. Lofgren paces up and down the hall, strumming the Chuck Berry rhythm of "Open All Night" on an acoustic guitar. From out of a side door emerges crew member Terry MaGovern–a big, dignified man with a gray beard–dressed in a large foam-rubber tree costume. During "Growin’ Up" Bruce will launch into a monologue about Clarence and he being lost in the Jersey woods. MaGovern has been drafted into portraying the woods. His partner Jim McDuffie will represent the animal kingdom, dressed as a bear. Roy Bittan comes out, sees MaGovern and goes into hysterics. While Nils still strums to himself, Roy grabs his camera and gets his wife Amy to pose with the forest primeval.

In the dressing room across the hall, Patti Scialfa lines her eyes and searches for her toothpaste. "I always take my work seriously," Scialfa says. "But working for Bruce is real different. I want to be as good as I can possibly be. I’ve never been as disciplined as right now. I do a voice lesson every day. I work out. I feel a real responsibility to give a hundred percent. Bruce makes me feel that in a very positive way.

"Some people you work for are crabby, or they have a lot of problems that come out. That makes it hard to feel good about yourself. But Bruce is a great leader. He’s fearless." Patti laughs. "He gets up there and he’s calm, he looks very centered. It’s like, ‘This is it. This is what we’re going to do.’ Working for somebody like that enables me to rise to my best. He brings out a purity. There’s nothing putting up blocks."

Patti had seen Bruce play only once before joining the band. She met him in the summer of 1983, while sitting in with a local bar band, Cats on a Smooth Surface, in Asbury Park. (She had left a gig With Southside Johnny a year earlier.) At the beginning of the summer of ‘84, Bruce invited her over to his house to sing with Nils, Roy and him. "We just sat around with acoustic guitars," Scialfa remembers. "It was very casual, which I thought was nice. He called about two days later and asked if I wanted to come up and sing with the whole band." Patti passed the audition, and was asked to join the E Street Band on a Sunday night. The tour began that Wednesday. She got through the first show using crib notes. Patti still hasn’t told Bruce that she’s one of the girls who auditioned to join the band when Born To Run came out.

Is there a greater lesson in Patti’s story? She thinks so: "You can meet somebody nice in a bar."

Nils Lofgren was about to start work on an album for a European label when he got the call, in May. Last winter Nils spent some time at Bruce’s house. "I’d heard these stories that Steve (Van Zandt) might not be able to stay," Lofgren explains. "So just for my own head, I told Bruce that if it got to the point where he actually had to find another guitar player, to keep me in mind. I just said it and dismissed it."

When Bruce asked Nils to join, he jumped at the chance. "I love bands," Lofgren says. "Grin had to break up ‘cause we did four albums and none of them did well enough on the business end for us to stay together. That was a real painful thing. It had been ten years since that break up, and to get a chance to play in a great band was really fantastic. It’s exciting for me to be in a band and not be the leader."

On their night off, several E Streeters went to see Difford and Tilbrook. As Glenn Tilbrook was ill, the former Squeeze leaders played, with their encore, only about sixty minutes. Afterwards Garry Tallent went backstage to pay his compliments and invite them to the following night’s Springsteen concert. "I’d love to go," Tilbrook said, "but we’ve got to play here again tomorrow at eleven."

"Well," Tallent replied, "We go on about 8:15."

"Oh great, then we’ll come see the first part of your show before we play."

"Yeah," some wise-ass piped up. "and then when you’re done you can go back and see the rest."

No one’s worked as hard to bring intimacy into arenas as Bruce Springsteen. He still runs all over the hall during sound-check to check out acoustics in the cheap seats. Every time Springsteen has moved up–from clubs to 3,000 seat theaters, from theaters to civic centers, he’s delayed the move way past the point where ticket demand warranted an escalation.

Rather than play one night to the whole Toronto ballpark, Springsteen had chosen to play to part of the stadium for three nights. But he was uncomfortable with the video screen that was used to give those far off a good look. Although assured that the multiple cameras and sympathetic direction had made the movie screen a valuable addition, Bruce sighed that he had doubts about it. The whole show was an experiment, an attempt to see if it was possible to achieve in a ball park anything like the intimacy he’d maintained on the slow climb from bars to arenas. Springsteen is again at a point where his audience has gotten too big for the halls he wants to play.

‘As far as interaction with the audience goes," Roy Bittan says over dinner a few weeks later, "I do not feel Bruce has lost anything. Some people say, ‘Oh, it was so much better when we played in little clubs I don’t perceive any difference. Bruce relates to the entire audience, whether it’s 50 people or 3,000 or 25,000. I don’t believe he increases the size of the places we play until he feels that, sound-wise, production-wise, and with his own particular way of performing, he’s positive he can project to that last person in the last row.

"I like sound outdoors," Bittan continues. "It’s real clear. It has a real stereo quality about it. Technology today has reached the point where you can play those large places. It’s not like the Beatles playing Shea Stadium with two little P.A. columns and 64,000 screaming people. I want to see us in a 60,000 seat arena. I know people are going to react in the same way. That interaction between Bruce and his audience isn’t going to change. I’m looking forward to that. I think it’s a positive step. I think the video screen is great. I love it. I think you do reach a point where the visual element is reduced to a bunch of ants on a postage stamp. That’s the point where the video screen really enhances it."

Even at Blue Jays Stadium, the crowd hushed when Springsteen dismissed the band to sing "No Surrender" with his acoustic guitar. They also paid strict attention to his long stories about growing up. Springsteen demands a lot of his audience, and he usually gets it. He began to tell a story about his hometown:

"When I was a kid, I lived by this park. And in the park was a monument. My mother used to always say, ‘Where are you going?’ We’d say, ‘We’re gonna go play around the monument.’ Then when I was fifteen and in my first band, we needed our publicity pictures taken. We all had these plastic leather snakeskin vests we got at the auction. And we had these frilly shirts like the Kinks used to wear. Beatle boots. We went down to the monument and we did all our poses. Had to have all those poses down exactly. It wasn’t till I was older that I found out there’d been this Revolutionary War battle fought outside my town

At that point one kid yelled, "Rock ‘n’ roll." One kid out of 22,000. Springsteen instantly cut short the story and, with a signal to the band, began playing.

The day after Labor Day, the last night of summer vacation, Springsteen played the first of two shows at the Centrum in Worcester, Massachusetts. "Dancing In The Dark" had lasted a whole summer on the radio. That night, Springsteen finished the story of the monument.

"It wasn’t till I got in my late teens that I even knew what it was a monument to. There was a Revolutionary War battle fought outside my town. Before this tour I went down to Washington and I visited the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. It’s a big walk and a lot of years between those two places. One of the guys, the drummer, who was in my first band’s name is in the stone down there. I guess that’s what monuments are for. So that you’ll always, always remember. So that you never forget. That this is your hometown."

In the summer of ‘75, just after he finished mixing Born To Run, I approached Springsteen after a gig and asked him about the buzz that he was going to be a really big star.

"I don’t think about it, man," Bruce shrugged. Then he admitted, "Well, I do think about it, I guess. But... you do what you do. And whatever comes from that, then that’s what happens. Whether it’s a big place or a little place, it’s great." He looked at his feet and explained, "See, what it is is, I’m always happy when I play with the band."

Type-E Behavior

Bruce Springsteen's main guitar is a 57 Fender Esquire. He uses Boogie heads through a Prime Time digital delay. He uses an SAE third-octave equalizer and Nady tube distortion. All his guitars are Telecasters and all have custom built pre-amps inside ‘em. He has an Obie F.R.C. to eliminate static. Both Bruce and Nils use Takamine acoustics, 6 & 12 strings.

Nils Lofgren mainly plays a ‘59 Stratocaster with old Bill Lawrence pickups (they eliminate the field, says Nils). He has a Strato-blaster in the guitar which he keeps turned all the way down (adds brightness, says Nils). He plays through a Fender Reverb and a Music Man run together. "I use an MXR for distortion. I keep the fuzz as low as possible and the gain on full for a thicker. smoother sound" He also uses a Guild Rotoverb, Buy it if ya find it.

Garry W. Tallent plays a new Guild SB602 bass with standard EMG pickups ("It weighs ten pounds less than the one from the last tour and I’m a happy man"). He uses three MESA Boogie amps through four Boogie 1x15 cabinets, as well as Guild bottoms.

Roy Bittan plays a Yamaha grand piano, a Yamaha DX7 and a Yamaha CS80 synthesizer. "The CS80 is one of the warmest synthesizers," says Roy. ‘certain synths sound extremely electronic. That gives them a certain Coldness. For this application the CS80 turned out to be a real good choice, To fit the synths into Bruce’s thing, warmth was an important quality to have. The 0X7 has a cleanness and sometimes starkness the CS80 doesn’t have"

Danny Federici plays a Hammond B-3 and a Yamaha DX7 and a weird, hand-made glock in a box. Sounds like a celeste, but it’s actually a glockenspiel stuck in a box and played with keys. All attempts to get the glock’s sound Captured on synth tape have eluded musical science.

Clarence Clemens plays three early model Selmer Mark 6’s; his soprano and baritones are Yamaha, both new. The Big Man and music designer Tim Holland designed a guitar-like strap that conforms to Clarence’s Olympian proportions and allows him to swing the sax on his back like Johnny cash.

Max Weinberg plays Ludwig drums with Remo Emperor heads and Zildjian cymbals.